Registered Member #636
Joined: 1:42:07 am GMT 10/26/05
Posts: 505
One could also go full Ranger for 20 levels, and use the FEs available to cover much of the opponents one would be meeting on Thain - Undead, Elementals, Dragons, Elves, Orcs (or whatever). Then add in Blade Thirst for your Bow. Would probably work pretty good.
Registered Member #1029
Joined: 11:45:04 am GMT 04/18/07
Posts: 732
frealaf- wrote ... aye a rangers favoured enemies is underestimated, with the right FE's one can do alot of damage, especially with Blade Thirst too.
True, the modified blade thirst spell is nice, but even if you have it cast on your bow and you're attacking something that is a favored enemy for a level 20 ranger, you're still only getting the same benefit that you would get from 9 levels of AA. The downside is that as well as having had to boost wisdom to cast it in the first place, you've had to forego other ranged damage benefits that an AA build would get such as weapon specialisation, bard song or sneak attacks.
One other thing. If I understand it correctly, the modified blade thirst spell "only" increases the bow AB to at most 5. The AA enchant arrow feat stacks with the bows inherent attack bonus, so a level 9 AA given a +3 bow will have their AB increased by 8, whereas a ranger casting blade thirst on the same bow will only see their AB increased by 5.
Of course if your primary aim is to RP a ranger then all this is a no brainer.
Registered Member #279
Joined: 4:17:59 pm GMT 09/25/04
Posts: 5460
Blade Thirst was modified on Thain to be more useful to Rangers. They have a pretty nice range of spells, and it will really help to use them.
Rangers must have wisdom to get their spells; specifically, 10+spell level wisdom to cast spells of that level. E.g., Cat's Grace is a second level spell, and a ranger needs 12 Wisdom to cast it; Blade Thirst is a third level spell, and a ranger needs a 13 Wisdom to cast it; and then one like Freedom is a fourth level spell, requiring a 14 wisdom to cast it.
Also, being only part-spellcaster, Rangers don't get their spells right away at level one, but only later. The earliest one can get first level spells is level 4, second at level 8, third at level 11, and fourth at level 14. How early you get them depends on how high your ranger's wisdom is.
Registered Member #636
Joined: 1:42:07 am GMT 10/26/05
Posts: 505
wrote ... One other thing. If I understand it correctly, the modified blade thirst spell "only" increases the bow AB to at most 5. The AA enchant arrow feat stacks with the bows inherent attack bonus, so a level 9 AA given a +3 bow will have their AB increased by 8, whereas a ranger casting blade thirst on the same bow will only see their AB increased by 5.
You need to also factor in the FE bonus AND the effects of Cat's Grace here, as well, for the Ranger.
The Gulf is not that wide, after all. And if one has Gone AA, then one had to have taken Bard, Sorc, or Wiz, meaning that the BAB is going to be at least one less than a full Ranger, as well.
There is no reason that an Elven Ranger could not have as high a starting Dex as an AA build does.
Not only that, but the Ranger is going to have an Animal Companion AND can Melee well, to boot!
[ Edited 12:05:59 PM 06/25/07 ]
Registered Member #800
Joined: 2:26:38 am GMT 06/19/06
Posts: 2065
Well, Twirlip is right in that probably the AA will usually win in any dps race in archery, but as Webshaman said, the difference is not that big (if your ranger also have str enough to benefit the mighty bonus and is targeting a FE) and IMO a dire wolf at lvl 20 with greater magic fang is quite a good tank for you when you are sniping solo
mostly it comes down to what you prefer to play, neither builds are "bad" or "to hard to play" or something like that, and both shines in different places of play
Registered Member #1029
Joined: 11:45:04 am GMT 04/18/07
Posts: 732
WebShaman wrote ... You need to also factor in the FE bonus AND the effects of Cat's Grace here, as well, for the Ranger.
Unless it's been modified on Thain, FE only adds to damage versus certain types of enemy, it doesn't increase the attack bonus. Cat's grace helps but can only be counted on to increase AB by 1 and is dispellable.
WebShaman wrote ... There is no reason that an Elven Ranger could not have as high a starting Dex as an AA build does.
Yes, but remember that to cast those nice spells requires wisdom that must be paid for by not increasing other more useful abilities.
WebShaman wrote ... Not only that, but the Ranger is going to have an Animal Companion AND can Melee well, to boot!
The animal companion is nice but I still say that at level 20 certain types of AA can out melee a ranger and their little friend, especially a ranger that has been built with archery in mind.
Registered Member #800
Joined: 2:26:38 am GMT 06/19/06
Posts: 2065
well, the ranger is build to be a little off everything, it can sneak, it has skills, it has companion, it can melee and shoot, it got some nice spells, whiel the AA is a specialised archery class, making it kind off obvious that the AA is a bit superiour in that field
on the other hand jsut a small little spell like resist element is really a coin saver when hunting minebuggs and sneaking forward placing some nice deadly traps before shooting is also kinda neat
Registered Member #636
Joined: 1:42:07 am GMT 10/26/05
Posts: 505
wrote ... WebShaman wrote: ...
You need to also factor in the FE bonus AND the effects of Cat's Grace here, as well, for the Ranger.
Unless it's been modified on Thain, FE only adds to damage versus certain types of enemy, it doesn't increase the attack bonus. Cat's grace helps but can only be counted on to increase AB by 1 and is dispellable.
FE only helps out for damage and a few other things
wrote ... The character gains a +1 bonus to any damage delivered to his favored enemy. He also receives a +1 bonus on Listen, Spot, and Taunt checks against the favored enemy
In the case of Cat's Grace, the spell increases Dex by 1d4 + 1. That is 2~5, with an average of 3~4, which is a +1 OR a +2 to AB (every two points of Dex gives a +1 to AB for ranged weapons).
Don't forget to add in Aid for an extra +1 to AB
wrote ... The target gains a +1 bonus to Attack rolls, a +1 bonus on Saving throws versus Fear, and a 1d8 bonus to maximum Hit Points
wrote ... WebShaman wrote: ...
There is no reason that an Elven Ranger could not have as high a starting Dex as an AA build does.
Yes, but remember that to cast those nice spells requires wisdom that must be paid for by not increasing other more useful abilities.
Well, you may consider other stats more useful, but the spells that the Ranger get are the trade-off for the points invested in Wis.
wrote ... WebShaman wrote: ...
Not only that, but the Ranger is going to have an Animal Companion AND can Melee well, to boot!
The animal companion is nice but I still say that at level 20 certain types of AA can out melee a ranger and their little friend, especially a ranger that has been built with archery in mind.
An AA that is going to out melee a Ranger with his Animal Companion, at level 20? Post your build. I've done extensive builds with Rangers, and although you may be able to get a little bit better AB with your AA, it will not make enough difference to stave off a Full Ranger and his Animal Companion, especially if your AA is on the Ranger's FE list.
[ Edited 12:50:53 PM 06/25/07 ][ Edited 12:52:23 PM 06/25/07 ]
[ The Island of Thain ]
A ranger that cant shoot can any body help me out here.
