Registered Member #345
Joined: 2:28:49 am GMT 11/25/04
Posts: 1954
TwirlP wrote ... But surely then it's just a matter of play style?
To me it's a matter of one's concept of an archer. Like I said in my post:
The idea of an archer solo'ing places like Craggan's Isle seems very counter to how I envision the character concept.
An archer solo'ing places like lord's tomb and Craggan's isle is counter to my concept of an archer - that doesn't mean that it has to be counter to your concept of an archer.
To me, if an archer has to give up their bow for a melee weapon, then that archer has failed either in planning, execution, or in gathering a party that complements what they do. The best melee weapon my archer carries is a short sword +1 with (occassionally) a nice ability to hinder an oponent's movement - which gives him a chance to reestablish bow range.
Playing an archer takes some patience... finding locations where the terrain makes it difficult for the enemy to approach; using items or spells to create 'kill zones' (entangle and grease are nice for that, so are a few items that are found in various places on Thain). But mostly, it's filling the role of an archer within a party... I don't see an archer going alone to places where the terrain isn't suitable to their bowcraft. If they plan to travel there, then that's when they look for other, stouter warriors to accompany them - and they play the role of an archer.
A character who is essentially indifferent to whether they are using their bow or a melee weapon is an incredible warrior - no doubt about it. They just don't fit my concept of an archer.
That does not, however, mean that such a character cannot fit your or anyone else's concept of an archer. I'm not trying to tell anyone how to play their character. I am only offering how I see an archer.
Registered Member #1029
Joined: 11:45:04 am GMT 04/18/07
Posts: 732
DizzyJ wrote ...
In my experience, the people I least enjoy adventuring with are powerbuild melleers. While spellcasters can dominate a party by using ranged area attacks to wipe out everything before anyone else can do anything, I've been fortunate not to be partied with many who do. I have, however, been on a number of adventures with meleers who rush to the front, kill everything and leave everyone else feeling like a spectator. I'll take the guy who dies over the guy who makes everyone else pointless. I might end up having to respawn, but I'll have more fun along the way.
I'm very aware, from first hand experience of the danger of this, and I do try and hold back on occasion by using a weaker bow and breaking attack before killing things etc. But, it is nice to be able to ramp up a gear and switch back to a decent bow and nice arrows or even to pull out a sword and go stand with the front liners if things start looking iffy though; personally I'd rather the big bad melee showed up and saved the day if the alternative was going to be TPK.
Oh and also for this very reason I'm in the process of building a much weaker party friendly rogue archer that will need friends to prosper. So party invites will be much appreciated.
Registered Member #345
Joined: 2:28:49 am GMT 11/25/04
Posts: 1954
I like characters more than builds, but I am curious... what are the +5, +5 by the bow damage for? I /think/ one was supposed to be for blade thirst, but that only adds AB.
Registered Member #636
Joined: 1:42:07 am GMT 10/26/05
Posts: 505
It does not add to damage? Then my bad, one can take that out (I was not sure how Thain has changed it). The other + 5 is for FE (assuming that the target is an FE).
Now, I do understand liking characters more than the build mechanics. I prefer playing a character rather than crunching numbers (though I will admit that the mechanics do fascinate me).
I just wanted to demonstrate that a Ranger can be a very good Archer as well, if some thought goes into it.
[ Edited 10:13:51 PM 06/25/07 ]
Registered Member #345
Joined: 2:28:49 am GMT 11/25/04
Posts: 1954
WebShaman wrote ... It does not add to damage?
Nope... Blade thirst makes the bow equivelent to a +5 bow (similar to how GMW makes a melee weapon equivelent to a +5 weapon). However, a +5 bow does not add a damage bonus... It's a really nice spell - even better because you can cast it on others (whereas the original blade thirst was self target only).
I also think your AB progression with the longbow is 6 points too high. It would begin with a 33, not a 39 (27 +2 for cat's greace, -2 for rapid shot, +1 for aid, +5 for blade thirst).
And I agree, rangers can make great archers. I've had a many, many hours of fun with the archer I play, and he's a ranger.
Registered Member #636
Joined: 1:42:07 am GMT 10/26/05
Posts: 505
It is wrong - it should be 36 without Rapid Shot, 34 with Rapid Shot active. I just checked ingame.
Build edited to reflect this.
Thanks for pointing it out.
[ Edited 11:15:53 PM 06/25/07 ][ Edited 11:22:33 PM 06/25/07 ]
Registered Member #747
Joined: 4:12:49 pm GMT 04/20/06
Posts: 121
DizzyJ wrote ... In my experience, the people I least enjoy adventuring with [...] kill everything and leave everyone else feeling like a spectator. I'll take the guy who dies over the guy who makes everyone else pointless. I might end up having to respawn, but I'll have more fun along the way.
My sentiments exactly.
If your character's strengths make the party better, you contribute. Otherwise, you're a spectator. Guess what's more fun and fulfilling. I'll not forget the feeling I got when Gerik was still a lowlevel rogue, partying with doubly high level characters; contributing by picking the locks while visiting the snake women was a lot of fun.
But to contribute, you must have complementing strengths to counter other character's (real or imaginary) weaknesses. Especially when fighting, as that is often the biggest non-travel part of any adventure.
Squawk! Registered Member #648
Joined: 1:50:32 am GMT 11/20/05
Posts: 1484
DizzyJ wrote ...
In my experience, the people I least enjoy adventuring with are powerbuild melleers. While spellcasters can dominate a party by using ranged area attacks to wipe out everything before anyone else can do anything, I've been fortunate not to be partied with many who do. I have, however, been on a number of adventures with meleers who rush to the front, kill everything and leave everyone else feeling like a spectator. I'll take the guy who dies over the guy who makes everyone else pointless. I might end up having to respawn, but I'll have more fun along the way.
I gotta agree with this. I wish there was some way to turn off great cleave when you want to. Sometimes I like to have Dylin escort people through the goblins/kobolds etc., but he ends up killing them all before anyone else gets a hit in. I usually just click off to end the flurries or taunt the monsters while soaking up some hits, but it would be nice to be able to turn down the mass damage.
I know from playing a spell caster that it is not much fun to see my precious spell land on a corpse. I think this is one reason (aside from the obvious ones ) that AOE spell are so popular. At least you are likely to damage something amidst the flurry of knockdowns and great cleaves.
Registered Member #636
Joined: 1:42:07 am GMT 10/26/05
Posts: 505
One way of "turning off" such always on abilities, is to activate an ability like improved Power Attack or Improved Expertise to give a -10 to AB. That often breaks off Great Cleave attempts due to missing.
[ The Island of Thain ]
A ranger that cant shoot can any body help me out here.
