I've played "Drop Everything" on Ultima Online and Darkfall. The games are about competing for resources. It's a type of gameplay that I like, but Thain isn't really in that niche for many reasons - one being that it's a high-fantasy construction with personalized items. You don't order five sets of armor and swords from your local blacksmith to have replacements in case you die.
In that setting your corpse would drop and things could be looted from it. You'd run as a ghost to a healer to get raised or respawn naked at a bind point, respectively. From there on you grabbed replacement gear from your bank or personal storage and set out to retrieve your stuff, or to keep figthing the battle if it was something major going on. This makes death costly, but it doesn't make it more serious. It's typically just a matter of gear, though you could occasionally lose an objective if you died and that would be bad. That is not about the death of your characater however, it is about the failure of your team.
Generally, I don't think a cropse drop type system accomplishes anything that I'm looking for.
Registered Member #1004
Joined: 12:54:02 pm GMT 03/16/07
Posts: 2499
In terms of Death and Raises in PvP.
I am of the personal opinion that Raises should NOT be used in PvP, except when CAST by spell, via cleric. And only then if the cleric has also been set to hostile, so that there is a chance to disrupt the spell.
All other forms of raising the fallen should wait until the conclusion of battle.
Again this is PERSONAL OPINION. You don't have to agree or like it. Heck, you don't even have to follow it.
But it is annoying and more than a bit ridiculous to fight half a dozen characters and beat them, only to have some random person running amok with a stack of stones and scrolls picking them back up so they can rejoin the combat. Or to be on the other side and lose, only have someone pull you up in the middle, ruins whatever dramatic climax it could have built to. It makes me want to not deal with those players anymore for tense situations, because I know it will just be foolishness.
Even moreso to have a character who has not flagged you as hostile, to be doing it. That's a pure abuse of mechanics, especially as you are engaged in battle already and may not have time to find a random name in the list of players and flip them hostile, while trying to hold back the current foes to the best of your ability.
It has happened in the past, and I have no doubt it will happen again in the future.
Registered Member #279
Joined: 4:17:59 pm GMT 09/25/04
Posts: 5460
There's that original Star Trek episode where the floating light gets on the Enterprise and makes the Klingons and Federations fight each other with knives and swords. They all come back to life instantly in sick bay and rush back to the battle -- it's just like an MMO w/ PvP!
I've seen this happen in Thain, too. Usually, if a DM's around, they try to curtail it, but it's like herding cats. Any sort of post-death process that takes a little time can prevent a lot of this behavior at the source, imo, and leave the DM more free for DM'ing.
It's also a problem when people who aren't in a PvP try to help. Even when a DM is present, this is tricky, since it's hard for a DM to see who is hostile to who. The MMO's I've tried in recent years all have provisions that automatically flag "helpers" for PvP the moment they raise/heal/buff/help a participant. That's not impossible in NWN scripting, but it's hard. Detecting the helping relies on some of the engine events that are kind of flaky and unreliable.
arrivederci, megido Registered Member #1403
Joined: 3:11:09 am GMT 02/26/09
Posts: 1864
Quick thing. Was talking about these today and asked Gears whether or not some of these ideas were possible -
He said you can set a variable on death that goes off when a certain timer is reached. So when you raise dead / resurrect / life stone, it checks if the variable is active, and if it's not, the resurrection won't work. It can also be scripted to refund the scroll/stone. If someone logs during death, the variable can reset on login.
That seems to me like a simple and viable method to get rid of combat rezzing, both in regular play, in PvP, and in DM events, and doesn't interfere with Fray (other than a little bit of waiting time before "getting them up") or other similar events.
If no one has any objections to this, this is something I'd actually like to see implemented on Thain, though I have a feeling some people may not want it - if you don't like this idea, please post, I want to know other viewpoints.
Also, I really like all of Thimn's ideas, and I'd love to see a blind/deaf/slowed upon resurrection.
I'm Watching You Registered Member #273
Joined: 7:18:06 pm GMT 09/21/04
Posts: 6051
Can you offer a little more detail about what you would like to see, MT? I would be in favor of repercussions for death, but it sounds like you are specifically suggesting something to prevent using a Raise or Resurrection while there is combat (or presumably a hostile faction? or just for a set time after dying?) occurring in the area.
If that is correct, couldn't you just ask anyone in your events (you mentioned you hate it when that happens during DM events) not to do that? Or even add that to the FAQ?
Using an extreme example, I could imagine a group deep into hostile territory sending a wizard and cleric in to get a fallen comrade under cover of invisibility, making the body invisible, then raising the body using See Invisibility and the "bring back the dead" method of their choice, all in character and without (in my opinion) any cheese. They might not have much time, their spells running low, etc.
Of course I recall that you said you were not going to interact with me again because you felt I was condescending, but maybe there are others here that would like to have a more clear idea of what you mean. So maybe you could address it for that reason? The truth is, I am just not sure what exactly you are suggesting we implement. So I am not saying I dislike your idea, just that I am not clear about what it is.
Registered Member #2049
Joined: 12:00:00 am GMT 01/01/70
Posts: 0
If I understood correctly, the idea is this:
- you die
- a countdown timer starts
- once the timer reaches 0, you can be rezzed
- if the timer hasn't reached 0, the rez will fail
- the stone / scroll can be returned to the one using it if the rez fails
I kind of like this idea too as long as the "cool-off period" isn't anything ridiculous. I'm thinking like 5 minutes RL time at the very most, but more like just 2-3 minutes would do, as battles usually don't last very long AND if we don't see the timer, we don't want to waste time trying and failing again and again.
arrivederci, megido Registered Member #1403
Joined: 3:11:09 am GMT 02/26/09
Posts: 1864
Please leave personal things like that out of discussions. That is the reason I was upset with you the last time there was a discussion thread, if you'll recall.
I will expand -
The idea/implementation that Gears to me, would, I believe just be on a set timer. The scenario you painted in your post still works, RP-wise, because the timer is meant to make resurrecting in dangerous/combat scenarios hard and consequential.
I am in favor of making PCs/players think about death instead of having it be a "aw! my HP is down, better wait for a res so I can jump up and EVISCERATE this monster immediately".
That being said, this thread is *specifically* about implementing consequences on death / a new death system by scripting, which is why I asked a scripter, and then brought up their reply here.
If/when I have the time to DM again, you can be sure that there will be forum disclaimers and IC requests to not combat rez and ESPECIALLY not chain rez in my events. That is not what this thread is about, though. Amber specifically is asking about mechanical systems.
The Notorious I.N.G. Registered Member #1619
Joined: 1:45:20 pm GMT 07/28/10
Posts: 654
Thimns wrote ...
BTW, life stones used to cost more and they returned you to life with 1 hp, but now they cost less and you come back with half your HP. To me that's clearly encouraging people to use them during combat.
Registered Member #279
Joined: 4:17:59 pm GMT 09/25/04
Posts: 5460
MetalTree wrote ...
If/when I have the time to DM again, you can be sure that there will be forum disclaimers and IC requests to not combat rez and ESPECIALLY not chain rez in my events. That is not what this thread is about, though. Amber specifically is asking about mechanical systems.
I've had some experience with scripting; and I can assure you; Gears is right, the kind of post-death resurrection delay you're asking about is entirely feasible. One could even set this as a DM-Wand type option, where normally there's no delay, but a DM can set a delay onto a party if they wish.
Most things like that take careful coding to make sure they work they way one hopes, and that odd problems don't result. Like the server gets lagged out and has to dump its real-time event queue, then the event which turned the variable back off fails to fire, and no one can resurrect again without tedious DM fixings or emergency builder scripting and a server restart.
If there is a nugget of an idea here people might want to implement on Thain, or discuss an implementation, then a separate thread to discuss details might be warranted, so it doesn't take the more free-wheeling, non-Thain specific theoretical discussion here too far off. ^_^
[ The Island of Thain ]
Discussion of Death Ideas
