Randomly decided to check in after years and see talk of Doordie and Amel. Lots of fun memories! Arguably my first long time character, Narwyn, ended up closely aligned with Amel as his protege.
Doordie was one of the best RP's I ever played with. His stories, with his character Amel, were amazing. Rich, deep, complex. I hope Doordie is doing well! You have a really great Uncle!
Registered Member #685
Joined: 10:12:38 pm GMT 01/14/06
Posts: 1252
I've been looking in on stuff on rogues and the how some use two daggers,etc. Then this tutorial told me that if a rogue xclassed with ranger he gets Ambi+Dual Weild..but there was a warning by doing that I'd lose out on stuff later...
So I'm wondering what is this "stuff" I'll not get? and the differences between Dual and Two-weap.
Registered Member #431
Joined: 11:34:04 am GMT 02/12/05
Posts: 152
I'd first like to make the ever-valid disclaimer that if you feel your character's RP leads him towards developing as a [blank] (like ranger), then let that be the guiding influence for how you define your character through the classes/feats/skills you give him/her. (Though developing characters for power is accepted here, as well. Just a friendly reminder, that's all.)
Anyway...
The difference between the ranger's L1 free feat Dual-Wield (which grants the benefits of Ambidexterity and Two-Weapon Fighting) and Ambi+TWF (the actual feats) are the following:
1) Dual-Wielding only works when the character is wearing Light Armor or lighter (clothes/robes). If you aren't wearing such armor, you lose the benefits of Dual-Wielding.
2) Dual-Wielding does NOT qualify you to take Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (which has Ambi+TWF as a prerequisite). To get ITWF, you must either go to L9 ranger (when you get it for free), or you must take Ambi+TWF.
3) You do not need to meet the prerequisites to get Dual-Wielding (like Ambi would normally require 15+ DEX, but you get the benefits of Ambi+TWF, regardless of DEX, just be having one ranger level, assuming the light armor requirement is met)
(Note that at L9 ranger, when the character gains ITWF, that feat does NOT have the light armor restriction that Dual-Wielding has. It function exactly as having Ambi+TWF+ITWF.)
As for the "stuff" you'll miss out on by splitting levels between ranger and rogue...
By giving up rogue levels, you simply miss out on rogue-specific things. Namely, your sneak attack won't get as high, you'll lose skill points, and you may miss out on the Rogue Bonus Feats that rogues get at rogue level 10, 13, 16, and 19 (which include Improved Evasion, Crippling Strike, Skill Mastery, Opportunist, Defensive Roll, and Slippery Mind).
That's about it. Rogue levels are essentially all about sneak attack, many skill points with many class skills, rogue bonus feats, and perhaps the rogue list of epic bonus feats. Note that players shouldn't expect the last one (epic bonus feats) to apply to their characters on Thain.
You may feel your character concept will be better realized by giving up some of those rogue benefits to gain, say, more combat ability (AB, Dual-Wielding, ITWF), a touch with nature (spells, animal empathy), a loyal companion that suits your new/modified calling (animal companion), or manifesting a particular antipathy for certain creatures (favored enemy). Then by all means, go with ranger, and ignore what some tutorial warned you about.
In fact, I strongly urge you to not heed that tutorial's warning - there are definite merits to taking a rogue down the path of being a ranger, certainly in RP terms, but also in terms of what that tutorial was likely considering - mechanical power.
Again, let your RP guide you towards "feeling your way" around what classes, feats, and skills you use to define your character. Tutorials can't and shouldn't dictate how your character should be RP'ed, and therefore their suggestions on how to develop that character are moot.
(Yay! This was the first time I've ever used moot in a sentence! And I think I used it correctly, too! Wheeee!)
[Edit: Because I said "...leads him to be leading..."]
[Edit Edit: added another tidbit about ITWF]
[ Edited 12:06:14 PM 03/11/06 ][ Edited 12:08:15 PM 03/11/06 ]
Registered Member #34
Joined: 11:01:04 am GMT 02/26/04
Posts: 2778
I think Gridz summed it up pretty well.
And I wouldn't worry about that cross you mentioned. From my experience, most (but certainly not all) PCs are concious of their combat prowess, and make some effort to improve it.
Always Preceding Miggen Registered Member #136
Joined: 4:31:27 am GMT 06/13/04
Posts: 16130
Try to have a little thicker skin--you were hardly stuck on a cross and burnt... I've seen flame-attacks on other forums and things here are quite tame.
Now, having said that, I'm sorry that you feel "under attack"... I personally won't be reading you the RP mantra anymore as I think you know it well enough by this point.
In short, take what's useful to you in whatever anyone offers up and ignore the stuff that bugs you.
TPK Insurance Specialist, call now for our low, low rates! 1-800-U KILL ME Registered Member #552
Joined: 4:34:52 am GMT 06/13/05
Posts: 2608
I wouldn't worry about it FD, we know you do RP here so paying a bit of attention to the strength of your build is hardly going to get you strung up!
Franck was originally conceived as a bit of a PG character, for those (frequent!) times I'm on when hardly anyone else is. So while Aiken has not one feat which is of any use in combat, Franck is a more traditional OC build - get Great Cleave, get Whirlwind attack, improved critical etc. I don't think it really matters what your build is, so long as you RP to those abilities and feats etc.
Registered Member #575
Joined: 12:37:43 am GMT 07/16/05
Posts: 284
S'good point Bonesly makes there FD. And as for the combat prowess of a character... Wing has Exotic Weapons Feat... completely pointless except for RP purposes really. What real mechanical sense does it make to give a pure wizard the EWF? *shrugs* As for his reason? He likes weird weapons. He uses a katana or a scythe mostly.((Don't even think the name you halflings ))
Erm... enough of my nattering.
[ Edited 06:50:46 PM 03/11/06 ]
Registered Member #677
Joined: 3:55:38 pm GMT 01/03/06
Posts: 140
*grins* A pure Wizard with Exotic Weapons, Two-Weapon Fighting, Ambidexterity, and Weapon Focus in Two-Bladed Sword is a fun character to play. One casting of Flame Weapon gets you fire damage on both hits, and it really surprises people when your Wizard charges the enemy and that "staff" turns out to have sharp edges.
[ The Island of Thain ]
Dual Wield Vs. Two-Weapon Fighting
Anyway...
The difference between the ranger's L1 free feat Dual-Wield (which grants the benefits of Ambidexterity and Two-Weapon Fighting) and Ambi+TWF (the actual feats) are the following:
1) Dual-Wielding only works when the character is wearing Light Armor or lighter (clothes/robes). If you aren't wearing such armor, you lose the benefits of Dual-Wielding.
2) Dual-Wielding does NOT qualify you to take Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (which has Ambi+TWF as a prerequisite). To get ITWF, you must either go to L9 ranger (when you get it for free), or you must take Ambi+TWF.
3) You do not need to meet the prerequisites to get Dual-Wielding (like Ambi would normally require 15+ DEX, but you get the benefits of Ambi+TWF, regardless of DEX, just be having one ranger level, assuming the light armor requirement is met)
(Note that at L9 ranger, when the character gains ITWF, that feat does NOT have the light armor restriction that Dual-Wielding has. It function exactly as having Ambi+TWF+ITWF.)
As for the "stuff" you'll miss out on by splitting levels between ranger and rogue...
By giving up rogue levels, you simply miss out on rogue-specific things. Namely, your sneak attack won't get as high, you'll lose skill points, and you may miss out on the Rogue Bonus Feats that rogues get at rogue level 10, 13, 16, and 19 (which include Improved Evasion, Crippling Strike, Skill Mastery, Opportunist, Defensive Roll, and Slippery Mind).
That's about it. Rogue levels are essentially all about sneak attack, many skill points with many class skills, rogue bonus feats, and perhaps the rogue list of epic bonus feats. Note that players shouldn't expect the last one (epic bonus feats) to apply to their characters on Thain.
You may feel your character concept will be better realized by giving up some of those rogue benefits to gain, say, more combat ability (AB, Dual-Wielding, ITWF), a touch with nature (spells, animal empathy), a loyal companion that suits your new/modified calling (animal companion), or manifesting a particular antipathy for certain creatures (favored enemy). Then by all means, go with ranger, and ignore what some tutorial warned you about.
In fact, I strongly urge you to not heed that tutorial's warning - there are definite merits to taking a rogue down the path of being a ranger, certainly in RP terms, but also in terms of what that tutorial was likely considering - mechanical power.
Again, let your RP guide you towards "feeling your way" around what classes, feats, and skills you use to define your character. Tutorials can't and shouldn't dictate how your character should be RP'ed, and therefore their suggestions on how to develop that character are moot.
(Yay! This was the first time I've ever used moot in a sentence! And I think I used it correctly, too! Wheeee!)
[Edit: Because I said "...leads him to be leading..."]
[Edit Edit: added another tidbit about ITWF]
He uses a katana or a scythe mostly.((Don't even think the name you halflings 
))
Erm... enough of my nattering.
