Randomly decided to check in after years and see talk of Doordie and Amel. Lots of fun memories! Arguably my first long time character, Narwyn, ended up closely aligned with Amel as his protege.
Doordie was one of the best RP's I ever played with. His stories, with his character Amel, were amazing. Rich, deep, complex. I hope Doordie is doing well! You have a really great Uncle!
Registered Member #345
Joined: 2:28:49 am GMT 11/25/04
Posts: 1954
I've got a question about the Lore skill, and what information is known, and to whom. This is all just looking for thoughts on how to RP certain situations with one of my PC's, and isn't meant to be a set of rules, guidelines or anything else that others have to or should adopt.
One of my PC's is an aspiring merchant. He's still quite low-level (3rd, atm), so there is a great deal of "merchandise" (what normal PC's would refer to as loot ) out there that he has never seen and wouldn't be familiar with. Also, as a low-level, his lore skill is not all that high (something like 9, I think).
So, my question... when in the barter window, somebody shows Brymbalyn an item, that item is almost always already indentified. What exactly does that mean?
Does that mean the possessor of the item knows what it is, but my PC wouldn't necesarrily have a clue? It seems as though the way the mechanics work, it assumes that information regarding an ID'd item is passed honestly and perfectly - which wouldn't necessarily be the case if somebody is trying to sell it (as in the case with people showing items to Brym).
What I'm thinking about doing is having my merchant PC make a lore check anytime he is offered the chance to buy an item he hasn't seen before. If he makes it, he would be able to then appraise it... but if he misses it, then his appraisal could be off (potentially way off) high or low, which could lead to some very attractive or unattractive offers for some things.
I'm looking for an easy way to make those checks... the mechanics wuold be difficult to mimic, because they require that the base value of the item is known (which it probably isn't... at least to me ), and it also leaves no uncertainty. Brym would either automatically be able to ID an item, or automatically not be able to ID an item... I like the uncertainty of a roll - could make for some funny RP situations.
So I'm looking for some thoughts/advice on how to go about that. Any thoughts on good DC values for lore checks for various types of items?
Tempting as it was, I decided not to go round hitting people with a crowbar. Registered Member #650
Joined: 1:17:12 pm GMT 11/20/05
Posts: 8758
Mechanically, once the barter window show you can ID an item it means you have mechanically beaten the Lore DC set by the item value.
He is a merchant so maybe if you ID an item for the first time, add for yourself a +XX number. Mechanicly he might have ID it, but you can RP he has to research the thing. And once he has seen it once or more times, he can "check a list" and instantly ID it.
[ Edited 05:46:35 PM 08/20/07 ]
Registered Member #279
Joined: 4:17:59 pm GMT 09/25/04
Posts: 5460
I think you could keep a record of everything he's seen before in your journal. Perhaps even how many times, and the sale values he's offered/received for them. When I think back to the single most memorable merchant character I've met on Thain (Dir Danner; a true Prince of Merchants!) I could swear he must have had a spreadsheet on the side where he recorded absolutely everything.
As for Lore, you could start with Table 11 in the back of your NWN manual which is faithfully replicated in the NWN Wiki. For appraise, you could use the skill directly and adjust your buy/sell offers on your own, or even competitively with your potential customers (with coordination through tells, ideally).
Registered Member #920
Joined: 10:53:31 pm GMT 11/21/06
Posts: 940
I usually RP that if my character has seen and identified an item once, he will typically be able to identify it if he sees it again. You could always say, "I know I've seen this before ... oh, of course, goblins carry these!" or something to that effect.
Registered Member #345
Joined: 2:28:49 am GMT 11/25/04
Posts: 1954
EDIT: Woops... this was in reply to Renegade's comment... I hadn't seen the others yet.
*nods* Yep. If the item in the barter window is unidentified, then I can just use the mechanics. If he can identify it, through the mechanics then he could try to appraise it correctly.
Where I'm trying to add the Lore challenge for him is when an item is already ID'd. Say somebody throws a scroll (say "Gate") into the barter window. It's id'd already, but it makes sense that Brymbalyn might not have any idea what it is other than a magical scroll. I am curious how people would suggest a lore check so I could RP Brymbalyn as successfully ID'ing the item, or unsuccessfully ID'ing the item (and therefore under or over valuing it).
Likewise, if somebody drops a "whirling spur" in the barter window. If it's already ID'd, then there is no chance to let the mechanics play themselves out (unless you just assume that the other character explained the item in detail to Brymbalyn, which they might not do if they are trying to get a good deal). How would you suggest I make a Lore check in that case? Are there any guidelines in PnP, or does it work the same there as in NWN?
[ Edited 05:56:54 PM 08/20/07 ]
I'm Watching You Registered Member #273
Joined: 7:18:06 pm GMT 09/21/04
Posts: 6051
For my part, I would likely set a predermined pass or fail required roll for myself based on what I perceived as the difficulty level of the item. The aforementioned Gate spell would have a high difficulty chance for anyone other than a wizard, imo. So I would assign a pretty high lore roll requirement for that and, if I failed, RP accordingly.
"Two hundred gold? For that? Are you kidding me? I have seen better scrolls floating around in the Steinkreis sewers." *persuade roll*
Registered Member #747
Joined: 4:12:49 pm GMT 04/20/06
Posts: 121
Based on what Bence offers, you can use the aforementioned table to find a DC (thanks Amber). For example, if Brymbalyn is offered 3000gp for a scroll, the DC would be 10.
Furthermore, you can add a modifier for the amount of information. E.g. -2 for superficial information ("a mace, made by goblins, and used by foul creatures", or +0 for normal information ("Whirling Spur, evil only, ..."), and +1/+2 for detailed knowledge (all info in the window, and maybe some extra you as a player happen to know).
[ Edited 06:14:23 PM 08/20/07 ]
Registered Member #787
Joined: 8:48:31 am GMT 05/30/06
Posts: 1761
I limit what my characters know when it comes to Lore checks. Anders knows metal and warfare, so if it's a lore check about a weapon, suit of armor, or something about war/paladin stuff, he'd know. Arcane stuff? Nope. He might know how to read the power commands on a scroll, but that's it. Knowledge about geography and such? Nope. He never had that sort of teaching.
Ricven is much the opposite. Arcane stuff, geography, whatever can be read in books. He knows nothing about smithing, battle tactics, metal, etcetera.
I find limiting what my characters knows due to RP is fun. If Ricven or Anders wish to learn more about something else, they can go do research to find out! Like real life learning.
Iguana-on-a-stick Registered Member #1079
Joined: 8:18:48 am GMT 06/21/07
Posts: 2061
I agree with that approach. My character's lore skil mostly means he's well-educated and knows a decent amount about history, geography, military tactics, certain specifics about his home country, etc.
He doesn't know jack about magic items by himself, but once a shopkeeper or someone else has told him IC he'll remember it and be able to pinpoint it next time. (engine wise he can ID stuff anyway)
Always Preceding Miggen Registered Member #136
Joined: 4:31:27 am GMT 06/13/04
Posts: 16130
One way to approach this, Vae, is to simply come up with a Lore DC and then use the PC-Dicebag to roll a Lore check. As Amber suggested may have happened with Dir Danner, you'd have to keep a listing of "known" items and their gold values, perhaps listing what Bence would offer for them as the reference price. There's likely a direct correlation between the gold value and the Lore DC so if you can choose that DC, then you don't need to make an Appraise roll (which is more like Persuade for merchants than it is a valuation tool).
For those items that you haven't had evaluated by an NPC merchant (the experts relative to your L3), you'll just have to make up a DC based on what you think fits the char concept. You could easily RP that someone passing an identified item in the barter window is also saying a little something about that item (e.g., describing what properites it has). Then your PC (not you), must make a valuation of those joint properites until you can get an NPC to price it for comparison. The valuation determines the DC for the Lore check.
Of course reference NPC pricing is just that... a reference. A true prince of PC merchants will want to adjust prices up or down based on supply and demand, so you'll want to track over time what's popular and what's not, as well as gathering some "absolute" pricing reference data.
[ The Island of Thain ]
Question about the Lore skill
) out there that he has never seen and wouldn't be familiar with. Also, as a low-level, his lore skill is not all that high (something like 9, I think).
